[geeks] Re: [rescue] RE: Small schools...

[Ken Hansen]

Here is where my ideas/thoughts on this matter arise:

I went to a religious prep school that was half boarders. I had a
conversation with the Dean of Students (Vice Principal equivalent) about
liquor, and he said the following, which I always felt was the reasonable
stance:

    If I walk into a dorm room and see beer posters on the wall, a sloppy
room, and
    a student passed-out in bed with three beer cans by their side, I view
that one way.

    If I walk into a dorm room, and I see a clean room and a student sitting
at his desk
    quietly drinking a glass of red wine, I view that another way.

    The first student would probably be bounced out of the school - the
second would
    probably get suspended for a few days.

But this was before they had a stated "zero tolerance" policy.

Laws and policy are very hard to draft, if you completely reomve the ability
for a *person* to apply some judgement to the situation. In the high school
example, the Dean of Students had wide leeway to enforce the rules. When we
spoke about college policies, there were other individuals that were part of
the enforcement that would apply equal discretion as to the proper
punishment.

Also, remember - this is (typically) an under age student (< 21 yrs. old),
living in a dorm room on a college campus. Go off campus and you only have
the law to deal with. In every case (I assume) the colleges are proud of
their policies, and the parents that send their children to these schools
agree with the policies. Older students are expected to make their own
decisions.

Also, we are also talking about schools *much* smaller than any state
college, typically just several hundred students.

One final thought - I don't think a college can be absolved of any blame by
*ignoring* the presence of liquor on campus, just as they can't ignore
firearms. Most schools have strict policies on firearms (i.e. not allowed on
campus) despite constitutional rights. No one argues that I chouls be able
to walk around with a sidearm on campus (if you need one for protection, it
is time to transfer!). Well, maybe not in Texas ;^)

People know, understand and appreciate these policies when they go to these
schools. This is viewed as a good thing by all involved.

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cantrell" <david at cantrell.org.uk>
To: <geeks at sunhelp.org>
Cc: <rescue at sunhelp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [rescue] RE: Small schools...


> [lets take this to geeks]
>
> "Ken Hansen" <n2vip at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>
> > Well, when the drinking age is 21, and the average student enters school
> > when they are 18, that they allowed any acohol on campus was very, um,
> > permissive.
>
> Presumably this is only a problem for the university if they explicitly
> permit it.  So surely it would make sense to not mention it at all.
> of course, IANAUSL (or indeed a L of any kind).
>
> >            More permissive than my parents would have been at the time.
You
> > know, the law, liability, etc. At the same time I "suffered" under this
> > treatment, "frat bots" were drinking themselves into stupors that caused
> > them to think that they could jump off a third-story balcony and not get
> > hurt (they were) and some "party girls" to drink themselves into comas
from
> > alcohol poisoning.
>
> Again, I really don't see that it is the university's problem if a student
> gets killed because they're intoxicated.  Is it the university's problem
> if I overdose on sleeping tablets?  Or on smack?  Or if I have a traffic
> accident on-campus whilst under the influence of $other_recreational_drug?
>
> > Do you really need more than six beers in your dorm fridge at any one
time?
>
> It's cheaper to buy them in cases of 24, so yes :-)
>
> > Do you really need a well-stocked bar in your dorm room?
>
> It's quite nice, yes.  I generally like to have a couple of bottles of red
> wine, a couple of white to choose from; then a bottle of whisky (actually,
> several different bottles so I can choose whatever is appropriate to go
> with my mood/meal/cigar), some vodka, some port, and a nice selection of
> beers, some cider and maybe a bottle of mead.
>
> > I thought you were there to study...
>
> Having the odd drink doesn't prevent that.
>
> > This was really a policy that was only actively enforced when there were
> > other problems - the campus security didn't do suprise inspections...
>
> Oh so that makes it alright.  Imagine the outcry if $outrageous_law was
> put on the statute books "but we won't enforce it".
>
> --
> David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/
>
>       Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
>       but that's no reason not to give it            -- Agatha Christie
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