[geeks] CCW for Ohio!

[Francisco Javier Mesa-Martinez]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Mike Hebel wrote:

> BZZT!  Your effective attempt at a Straw Man attack in your original
> list of points when taken in the context of the discussion is an
> obvious attempt at labeling people who wish to own firearms as "gun
> nuts".  Thus in context of the discussion so are we - per your post.

Look, if you want to feel insulted, by all means do so. I am sure you
could find anything that you may find insulting even if I had been
talking about the nuances of bonsai grooming.

> That may be true.  Next time use more "winkies".  Some of us have had
> quite a few
> things pushed on us on occasion and are raw and bleeding in certain
> spots.
> However this "apology" is far too late.  It should have come the first
> few moments
> during the argument as a defusing method.

Hey, at least I was man enough to offer an apology, even though the last
of my intentions was to insult anyone in this list. So if I do not
apologize, is bad, if I apologize is too late. Whatever. The double
standards are quite interesting though...

> > And in case you missed I am
> > in favor of personal gun ownership, not unlimited access to guns, but
> > responsible gun use... as long as there is a mechanism in place to
> > regulate who gets to have a gun.
>
> What you mean here is so long as you are one of the ones in control.
> I have never met anyone who could tell me with a straight face that he
> was in
> favor of gun ownership with the ability to remove guns from the
> populace who
> would give up his own weapon.  Period.  If you are such then you are
> the first.
> What happens when they come to take your gun sir?

Hey, look a Straw man attack! Isn't that ironic?... No what I meant is that
in order for a person to own a gun, he or she needs to demostrate some
sort of ability to operate a gun, understand the responsabilities involved
in owning a fire weapon, and make sure he or she is mentally fit. The
process should be made so that it is neutral with respect of the will of
the pro-gun and anti-gun people. The law/process then must also be made
protected from possible government intromissions, that is part of the
responsability of the citizenry. In this respect, if you are qualified,
in the sense that you know how to operate a gun and can responsibly own it
(what use is a gun if you do not how to use it?) by all means own a gun.
But there must be a process in place to guarantee that.

Twist that all you want. I was just expressing a need to balance the
rights of the people to own a gun, with the actual responsability that gun
ownership implies. In case you missed it, I am not in favor of banning
guns, but I am not in favor of indiscriminate gun ownership.

> True Kurt's language may have been a little rough but your slightly
> snide veiled
> insults are the catalyst for Kurt's reaction.  You got no more than you
> expected.
>
> I name you Troll.

Now that is really mature...

> >> I don't care if you've seen your buddies spill their guts in
> >> combat, are a world class gun smith/armorer, or whatever.
> >
> > Of course you don't, and I would not expect you to either, afterall you
> > already called me an "old soldier" in a previous thread.
>
> Character Attack.  Justified if what you say is true.  However it shows
> your lack of
> ability to sustain the argument on merits.

Huh?

> My comprehension skills are just fine Mr. Francisco.  I read
> exceptionally well and remember quite a bit of what I read if not all
> of it.  I am dyslexic also Mr. Francisco
> so I have to employ extra efforts to decipher words, phrases, and whole
> sentences.
> This only increases my comprehension of such words.

Well, I am afraid that accusing someone of a straw man attack, and then
right away using such a approach yourself shows a bit of inconsistency. Or
at least a lack of short tem memory.

> Your meaning was quite clear however indirect your words.
>
> *ignites lighter in front of can of Troll-Be-Gone and sets troll
> flaming*
>
> Begone TROLL!  We have fed you enough!

Yeah, the TROLL approach a well known and refined debate technique.

Seriously, I offered and apology and a clarification. I do not believe
that the indiscriminate personal insults, nor the gang up of people who
accuse me of something, while themselves doing exactly what I was being
accused of was granted nor excused.

Cheers.