[geeks] CCW for Ohio!

[Mike Hebel]

On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 01:05 AM, Francisco Javier 
Mesa-Martinez wrote:

> I do understand that in order for those systems to work, a certain 
> degree
> of expectations from the society are expected.

True.  We just disagree where in society those systems are placed.

> Well educated parents should be able to do such tasks, a parent does 
> not
> automatically become a good parent as a de facto characteristic. If it 
> can
> not be regulated, at least "helped".

Granted.  The problem appears again "who decides the standards"? A good 
Muslim parent decides her daughter has to wear a veil.  Are they bad 
parents?  It's a slippery slope.

> Who said the universe is imperfect? :) The laws that regulate it are
> pretty perfect, anything builds on top of those perfect laws follow 
> their
> perfection. IMHO.

I prefer to remain outside this question and eat the fish of knowledge 
from the bush of stars.
In short - I don't know all the answers so I'm not going to go there.

>> One acronym - DMCA.  A flawed system where no system would be better.
>
> Touche on that one, however it was an imperfect system showeled down 
> our
> throats, with only one side involved in its creation and 
> implementation.

Thus the way a good majority of laws are created.  It's very rare that 
a majority votes all for the same thing despite separate interests.

> If you government starts changing the constitution and nobody does
> anything about it, I believe the last of the concerns of an American
> citizen should be whether or not they are gonna take their weapons. As 
> far
> as I am concerned a governmnet who changes the constitution is no 
> longer a
> government, ie. the citizen is not bounded to its government, but to 
> the
> government that was recognized under the constitution agreed upon the
> citizens (I do not know if that is worded correctly).

You did and I understood it quite well.  FWIW I agree with you.  The 
problem is one of action though in those cases not law.  No law will 
push back the tanks of the Chinese government rolling over their own 
people.  Action is necessary.  Of course, in my opinion - and yours per 
previous posts, that is why the constitution exists the way it does.

> Of course recent developments with PATRIOT I/II made me very 
> suspicious about the sneakness of the government. But since I am not 
> an American citizen, there is not
> much I can do. I am however a tad scared about the lack of action of 
> the
> American electorate/public. IMHO, if a government modifies any element 
> of
> the constitution w/o obtaining some sort of massive popular intervetion
> (referendum) then such government becomes void, an as such it is the 
> duty
> of the citizens to let the government know that they have been voided. 
> And
> as far as I know the military in this country pledges its allegiance to
> the constitution.

Read 1984 by George Orwell.  The reason people are not revolting is 
that they have been trained not to.  Not openly but subtly.  (Hi again 
Mr. Ashcroft!  Just a friendly discussion!)
By media which is censored, by being convinced that they have to give 
up their liberties to be safe, and by group apathy of not having an 
immediate hope of changing things.

> Having a child is in itself an egotistic action, and raising it is a
> continuation of such choice. I understand your concern, and it is a 
> very
> deeply personal choice... after experiencing first hand combat, well my
> positions on many things changed drastically and one of them was that 
> at
> some point, under certain conditions a human being may lose its fear 
> of death.
> Sounds silly, and I do not expect any one else to not put up a fight or
> to even understand... if my kid as an adult decides otherwise he/she 
> will be
> free to do whatever he/she wants.

Yet that still puts them at risk.  You have those experiences of death 
- they don't.  They won't be able to react properly when confronted 
with those situations unless you teach them.
Unfortunately and genetic memory, provided that it existed in the first 
place in humans, has been so overwhelmed or subdued that it's of no use 
except in the most extreme situations.
Do you really want to trust your child's life to "bad flash ram"?  So 
to speak anyway.

> We are all strongly opinionated, I just happen to have a different 
> opinion
> on this issue. I did not however wanted this to degenerate into some 
> sort
> of personal playground bickering contest.

Unfortunately that's the same thing that keeps us Americans from 
uniting in unison against our freedoms being stolen.  :-(

Mike Hebel