[geeks] christianity and judaism

[Michael Horton]

>In Judaism, that is not true. One accumulates "good guy" points for
your thoughts and deeds while you are alive.

this is not what the old testament nor biblical judaism teaches.
(i suspect that you are referring to judaism as practiced today.  i am
less conversant with this aspect but i know that what you have said is
not believed by all jews today.)

the old testament teaching is that "the just shall live by faith"!
of abraham, it is written that "he believed god and it was accounted to
him for righteousness".
daniel was called a righteous person during his lifetime (as well as
after).

yom kippur = day of covering
yom kippur was not a day of atonement.
yom kippur provided a covering until the day of atonement arrived.
yom kippur foreshadowed the day of atonement.

>In Judaism...<snip>...When you die you go to an afterlife which may
better be descibed as different levels of heaven

this was not the teaching at the time of jesus of nazareth.  his
depiction of the beggar and the rich man shows two jews it the
afterlife: one in a place of pain and torment (definitely not a "lesser"
heaven) and the other jew in a better place: described as abraham's
bosom in some translations).

there is a great deal of difference between judaism as designated in the
old testament and what it became later.

>The concept of an agreement between non Jews and G-D, aka the "new
testment" was invented by an exJew (Saul of Tarsus) who went to Rome to
preach Christianity. It has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism nor the
original Christians. He changed his name to Paul and fouded the Pauline
church which is Christainity as we know it today.

this is a lengthy discussion and i cannot "boil it down" very well.
enough of a proof is that the old testament is full of non-jews who
became followers of god (before and during the jewish "era".)  amoung
those before the jewish "era" are noah, enoch, and even abram/abraham
himself.  during the jewish "era" is rahab, ruth, naaman, nebuchanessar
(sic), the sailors, ninevah.
the agreement/covenant between non-jews and god has always been in
place.
what is called christianity is the continuation of that agreement.

-----Original Message-----
From: geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org] On
Behalf Of Geoffrey S. Mendelson
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:00 AM
To: The Geeks List
Subject: [geeks] christianity and judaism


Michael Horton wrote:

> the thought of a heaven or hell to be gained only after death is
> foreign to both biblical judaism and biblical christianity.

In Judaism, that is not true. One accumulates "good guy" points for your
thoughts and deeds while you are alive. When you die you go to an
afterlife which may better be descibed as different levels of heaven
than a wonderful heaven and a burning hell that are the Christian
choices.

>  for instance, the
> keeping of jewish feasts was out of thanksgiving to god and *not* fear

> of god.

Yom Kippur, the day of atonment is exactly that, a day of atoneing for
all your sins of the previous year and begging that you be predestined
for a good year.

The feasts were days of thanksgiving, for example sukkot was the harvest
festival when everyone traveled to Jerusalem, lived in little huts
(sukkot) for the harvest sacrafice (animals, not human), was counted in
the census and paid their tax.

Passover was another feast, celebrating liberation from slavery in
Egypt.




> while fear is an effective motivator, it is defective (don't we all
> hate it when our boss threatens us?).  the imagery of god in the bible

> is pointedly that of a parent with a child.  this is a relationship
> that is brought out of love.  (did you ever experience discipline as a

> child from a parent/parnet figure and years later realize that it was
> a good thing?  did you ever get a toy or an ice cream when you asked
> for it?  did you ever have a problem that a parent "sat beside" you
> and helped you through it?)

Good description. Remeber that "sinners in the hands of an agry G-D" was
written in the 1600's and had nothing to do with Jews.

> unfortunately, the theory that one must earn god's pleasure has crept
> into biblical judaism/christianity.  but the old testament knows
> nothing of this theory.  instead abraham is called the friend of god
> during his lifetime.  jacob is called the prince of god during his
> lifetime. david, in spite of his failings and bad decisions, is called

> a man after god's own heart.

That may not indicate pleasure. Jews have a contract with G-D and are
expected to follow all 613 commandments. Non Jews are excpected to
follow only the
first 10.

The concept of an agreement between non Jews and G-D, aka the "new
testment" was invented by an exJew (Saul of Tarsus) who went to Rome to
preach
Christianity. It has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism nor the original
Christians. He changed his name to Paul and fouded the Pauline church
which is Christainity as we know it today.

The original Chritsians were the JEWISH followers of Jesus who disbanded
after his death. Some went back to Judasim, some accepted Jesus as the
messiah, but still considered themselves Jews. They faded out and in
the 300's were absorbed into the Pauline (Roman) church.

Pauline Christianity is a Roman religion with some Jewish rituals, e.g.
baptism, retooled for the Roman masses. It really is a very different
religion than Judaism.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem Israel gsm at mendelson.com
IL Voice: 972-544-608-069  IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice:
1-215-821-1838
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