[geeks] just to stir things up, a few predictions

[Michael Horton]

english health care is definitely inferior to us health care.
(i lived under the english, socialized-medicine system for a few years.
(thankfully, i am relatively healthy; otherwise i might be dead.
taxes in the uk (at least in my little place in the empire) were
drastic.

germany will also have a lower quality of health care if for one reason
only:
they are permitted under (iso?) standards to have more deaths resulting
from procedures, medicines, etc.
i suspect there are more reasons than just this one.

when the previous democrat regime announced that a government takeover
of the medical industry would result in lower drug prices as found in
europe, it was *never* announced by that democrat regime that the
standards that drugs must meet is both higher and costlier in the us
than eurpope.  americans will not accept the level of death that is a
by-product of medical care that the (iso?) standards permit.

the medical industry in the us consumes 17% of the economy.
under socialized medicine one of two things will happen:
1. taxes will rise to maintain the same level of care
or
2. medical care will be lowered to maintain the same level of taxes.

this is becuase the medical system is abused under socialized medicine
and the government, seeking to reduce the costs, will restrict access to
medical care.  that is, people will access/try-to-access the medical
system for minor reasons (olds, scraps, etc.) since it is free.  (just
ask any doctor that has patients in the american welfare system.)

canada is an illustration of this.
well-to-do canadians can access the us medical system for specific
treatments, operations, and care quicker than they can the canadian
medical system.
there are more mri devices in memphis, tennessee, us than in the entire
country of canada.

the best place for innovation in all areas of technology are a robust,
competitive, free market.


-----Original Message-----
From: geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org] On
Behalf Of Matthew Braun
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 2:50 PM
To: The Geeks List
Subject: Re: [geeks] just to stir things up, a few predictions


On Oct 19, 2004, at 12:55 PM, Michael Horton wrote:
>
> i beg to differ: john "war criminal" kerry and john "malpractice"
> edwards will do far worse damage than george bush. just the mention of

> socialized medicine (under the previous democrat
> regime) did tremendous damage to the medical field.
> what do you think will happen if the johns put it into place (as they
> have implied this past week)! the largest tax increase in the history
> of the world was implemented under the previous democrat regime.
> as a middle class taxpayer, i was clobbered.
> the johns say that they will definitely increase taxes!
> the list of their promised programs imply that the tax increase will
> make the previous one look like nickels-and-dimes.
> where will the middle class be then?


Just to address what I believe is your statement that adopting
socialized medicine would lead to higher taxes, I want to present a few
statistics:
	In 2001, at 13.9% the United States had the highest levels of
expenditure on health as a percentage of GDP of all member states
(nearly 200) surveyed by the WHO (WHO World Health Report- 2004
http://www.who.int/entity/whr/2004/annex/topic/en/annex_5_en.pdf)
	Japan, England, and Germany (who I think are pretty much
comparable to
the US in quality of care) spent, in the same year 8%, 7.6% and 10.8%.
(However, I know that the governmental bureaucracies have can make
obtaining care more difficult in those countries)

  The private (vs general government) expenditure on health for the same

year breaks down to:
	US: 55.6%
	UK: 17.8%
	Japan: 22.1%
	Germany: 25.1%

Yet in in the same year, the total tax revenues as percentages of GDP
were:
	US: 28.9%
	UK: 37.3%
	Japan: 27.3%
	Germany: 36.8%
(Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development,
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/22/35/17103874.pdf)

So Japan has a lower total tax burden (although I suspect this may be
to outrageously generous corporate tax breaks) yet it manages to have a
health care system which I believe is on par with the US (though
they're overall far healthier than Americans, so they get to spend less
on dealing with heart disease). The actual tax burdens are far higher,
but (and right now I wish I was a statistician) I suspect that when you
factor in the private contributions which are a form of indirect tax
("The job pays less, but it's got great health care bennies") the
actual impact on your pocketbook might not be much at all, if any. I
suspect that, if the system is implemented properly, costs will fall.

Now, I know: "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and
statistics" and I'm not a professional, but the numbers suggest to me
that socialized medicine can be implemented without causing an undue
tax burden for the citizenry.

--
"I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's;
I will not reason and compare: my business is to create."
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