[geeks] Bad monster. No donut.

[Charles Shannon Hendrix]

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 @ 17:00 -0500, Nadine said:

> On 11/9/06, Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon at widomaker.com> wrote:
> > You forgot:
> >
> >         d) because the industy has no idea how to hire people.
> 
> I will only say that it's very dependent on the organization and
> hiring manager.

I agree.

In your other post, you didn't give room for that view.

> >         e) because your job is offshored.
> 
> There are certain types of IT jobs that have been off-shored.  High
> level systems administration is not one of them, contrary to popular
> belief.  The jobs that are gone are jobs that were scut work in the
> first place -- e.g. help desk call centers and the like.

What about the programming jobs?  A lot of them went too, and they were
certainly not "scut work".

I don't think things like microprocessor design are "scut work" either,
do you?

> >         f) because companies assume you have no capacity for learning new
> >            things.
> 
> Again, I have to disagree.  It depends entirely situation.  

If you think it depends on the situation, then you agree with me.
That's all I've been trying to say.

Maybe we are just talking past each other.  

> My new job is a good example.  I specifically asked if the
> interviewers thought I was missing anything, and they said "more
> cluster and SAN would be nice," and immediately followed that with,
> "but you can only work with what you've been given to work with at
> your previous employers, you seem to have the capacity to ramp up
> quickly, so we're not too worried about it."

...and I have also had good experiences like that.

That doesn't mean the bad ones didn't happen though. In my area, I find
this kind of experience is the exception, not the rule.

The two places you said you've been, California and DC, are a lot
different from here and other areas, sometimes radically.

> > Certainly in a tough job market, you need to make sure you do your end
> > of it.
> 
> In a *tough* job market?  Hello! You're *marketing YOURSELF* if you
> don't do your end of it, no one else fscking gives a damn.  You are
> selling a product and if you don't approach it that way you will
> always be dissatisfied.

Why are you stating this as an argument when I agree with you?

The job market is tough most of the time. The mid 90s were an exception
for a brief time.

> > For example, if you are a contractor or freelancer, your work record
> > will look spotty, so don't put it first. Put your skills section first,
> > and even push employment to another page if you can.
> 
> These are the types of things I was referring to as being *perceived*
> as negative.  It's all about presentation.

You also need to get past HR. I've even used two resumes to do that. One
is tailored to make HR say yes, the other one is my real resume.

If my real resume can't get past HR, when I get to the interview, I hand
the hiring manager the real thing. I've never had one of them get mad
about that or even look surprised. In a few cases they were the ones who
told me to do it because they knew HR would block me.

Sometimes a keyword block full of buzzwords will get your resume
noticed. It's silly, but it appears to work.

> > When you can find work and aren't having trouble, it is also very easy
> > to be blinded by that and not realize things can be very different for
> > others.
> 
> Frankly, you have no idea of what my situation is like.  

Hold on a minute...

Some of us posted our experiences, and you came along and basically
said, "Because I haven't had that experience, yours didn't happen or it
was your fault."

I was only reacting to what you said.  I never claimed to know any more
than what you posted.

Maybe you didn't really mean that, but that is how it sounded.

> I *fully* understand how it feels not to get call backs, much less
> find a job, so don't insult me with your "you don't understand" b.s.

No one is insulting you.  You said quite specifically that your
experiences were different and used that as a kind of proof that
ours were invalid.

Now you say that you had the same problems, so it appears there isn't
that much difference in our experiences after all.

> The other people on this list who regular post about "how bad it is"
> seem to be of the "keep repeating what doesn't work" ilk

I don't see that myself, as most of them seem to be surviving. If they
didn't adapt, I don't think they'd survive.

Just because someone bitches doesn't mean they aren't working around the
problems.

Grumbling is part of geek culture. 

> If you can't get your crap sorted out to get an IT job, maybe it's
> time to find a different line of work,

The reason I don't have an IT job, is because the bottom fell out of the
job market where I live for a few years.

My solution was to get my own contract work until things got better,
because I would like to stay in the area.  

Not only does it keep me from having to leave town, it gave me an easy
way to learn a few things about running my own business. I thought it
was a pretty good plan myself.

Exactly how does that equate to me not "getting my crap sorted out"?

> When I started on the geeks and rescue list, there were some spotty
> patches of bad attitude, but for the most part people seemed truly
> engaged and positive about their hobby and professions.  As time has
> gone on it's declined into mostly a bitch-fest, which is unfortunate.

I think it is unfortunate you feel that way, because I don't see that at
all. This is one of the best, most lively, and helpful lists I've ever
been on.

It looks to me like you are just in a bad mood, and I'm inclined to just
forget about it.

-- 
shannon "AT" widomaker.com -- ["I wish life was not so short. Languages
take such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." - J.
R. R. Tolkien]