[geeks] Race Tracks

[Sandwich Maker]

" From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
" 
" Sheldon T. Hall wrote:
" > BTW, if you want "a very nice, high mpg, smooth, quiet, comfortable little
" > car," try a Prius.  It ain't all that small inside, and it's got the "very
" > nice, high mpg, smooth, quiet, comfortable" bit down pat.
" 
" Umm.  No thank you.  If I want something small with good mpg, I'll pick 
" up a diesel Jetta.

in spades.  from all i've heard, it's -extremely- difficult to
actually get the mileage they claim for it - and the benefits are only
in stop-and-go anyway, not highway cruising.

and an echo turbodiesel - sold elsewhere on the planet - gets almost
as good mileage as the prius, all the time.

btw the prius weighs ~800lbs more than the echo - ~2800lbs vs. ~2000 -
and apparently batteries and swoopy drivetrain don't account for
even most of the difference.

" From: "Sheldon T. Hall" <shel at tandem.artell.net>
" 
" 
" 
" I don't have a Prius.  My son does, though, and I rather like it.  I'm
" waiting until Toyota puts the same or similar underpinnings in something
" more like a minivan (and, no, the Highlander SUV ain't it).  While the Prius
" is a comfortable size, and will haul a lot of stuff for its footprint, we
" need a car with room for a big dog crate.  We've got this huge sheepdog,
" y'see....

they -could- have easily put the prius guts under the original xb -
they're both based on the same platform.  of course, that brick surely
wouldn't get 60+ mpg.

" Even at the current price of gasoline here (US$3.19/USGal today), however,
" you have to drive some huge amount of miles to get back the premium you pay
" over an equivalent straight-gasoline-or-Diesel car of the same
" size/comfort/quality as the Prius.  I'd find it a bit hard to feel smug
" about that. 

back when they still sold the echo i worked up a back-of-the-envelope
economic comparison between it and the prius.  assuming $10k and $20k,
and 30 and 60 mpg, and gas at $3/gal, i figured you'd have to drive
about 200 000 miles just to break even - and the price difference was
greater while the mileage difference was less, making this estimate
conservative.

" Fuel economy aside, though, I think it's a very interesting car.  Very
" programmable, it turns out, though the UI is a bit odd. 

geek points!

" From: Lionel Peterson <lionel4287 at verizon.net>
" 
" []
" 
" Prius is about marketing, and that's fine.

up to a point.  when they lie to sell it...  'the most pernicious form
of lie is the half truth' - mark twain.  and what do you suppose
marketing [not just the prius] is founded upon?

" I love the line "People are so concerned about the environment
" they'll do anything EXCEPT take a science class." Heard it quoted
" on a radio show, not sure of source...

this is a great quote!

" From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
" 
" Phil Stracchino wrote:
" > Lionel Peterson wrote:
" >> Well, the folks that feel smug about the Prius aren't actually
" >> running the numbers. Instead they just, uhm, "know" that it's
" >> making a difference, just like they, uhm "know" that carbon offsets
" >> will make a difference, and that, "you know", man is going to
" >> *destroy* the planet.
" >> 
" >> It's not about the math, it's about the emotion...

like the uber-rich, driving their prii to their private jets...

" > I've heard that the total-lifecycle environmental cost of a Prius is 
" > actually higher than that of a Hummer.
" 
" A good chunk of it is probably the battery-recycling cost.

and toyota is very shy about even the battery -replacement- cost.
they keep saying it's falling as they build volume...  but they won't
name a number.

one thing that's hard to get numbers for though - how much fuel does
car manufacture burn?  i've heard it's comparable to the amount a car
will use in its lifetime - and they weren't talking about
super-mileage cars either.

the best way you can help the planet is by recycling almost any old
car -as-a-car-, instead of junking it and buying a replacement.  it
almost doesn't matter how clean its emissions are, you win on
manufacture and landfill pollution.

" From: "Bryan Fullerton" <fehwalker at gmail.com>
" 
" 
" I heard about this report too, a year or two ago, and from what I
" remember it was looking at the "dust-to-dust" environmental cost,
" including mining and refining original metals, cost of the assembly
" lines (including impact of the workers), an estimated lifetime of
" driving, disposal after scrapping, etc.

yup, complete lifecycle iirc.

" There were a lot of assumptions, especially since (not surprisingly)
" not all costs incurred were provided by the manufacturers.
" 
" I think it was also comparing the Prius to the original Hummer, not
" the H2 or H3 with their increased "luxury details".

as i recall it, they said a midrange suv like the trailblazer family
[isuzu and saab as well as hummer models] would actually cost less per
mile than the prius.  their lifecycle cost-per-mile winner was iirc
the xb.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh at an.bradford.ma.us                       and think what none thought