[geeks] Second Life is not a game?

[Jon Gilbert]

On Jul 31, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Mark wrote:

> On 31 Jul 2007, at 02:33, Jon Gilbert wrote:
>
>> Apparently you don't know what Second Life is. So I'll educate you.
>> It's a 3D virtual reality persistent world. It's not a game; there's
>> no "objectives," "points," "lives," or any other characteristics of
>> games.
>
> I don't know how you can claim that when it has a full monitory
> system. If you ask me it's a classical MMORPG with a slightly more
> open mind...

Do you mean _monetary_ system? I.e. that it has its own currency? I  
don't see how that makes it any different from the rest of the  
internet, which operates on financial grounds. The internet itself is  
massive and multi-user, but that does not make it a game. Just  
because you can see yourself and other people represented in some way  
in the environment does not make it a game in any way.

A game is something that you can win, or increase your status within.  
For example, in the the Eve Online RPG which you mentioned, it is a  
game because there are certain prescribed activities which you must  
do in order to gain points in your character experience, skills, and  
stats. Sure there is a currency, but that is ancillary to the game  
itself.

Second Life on the other hand is simply a 3D version of the internet.  
Toyota for example has a site where they can demonstrate products in  
the virtual space. Real life bands hold virtual concerts there to  
expand their fan bases. Trade organizations have educational spaces  
there. Universities have research facilities set up. It's not a game,  
get over that idea.

>
>> The only similarity between it and a game, is the fact that it
>> is in 3D and you have an avatar that represents you within that  
>> world.
>
> Ergo it's a role playing game. Just because you are trying to be
> serious about it doesn't stop it being a game. I play EVE Online a
> lot (although I've been on sabbatical recently) and we take it fairly
> seriously, have a proper company structure to our corporation etc,
> but at the end of the day it's still just a game.

You're right, Eve Online is just a game. All the game content is  
specified by the game developer. Every ship you fly has been designed  
by the company. You are locked into a specific character for the  
duration of your play session, and there are specific things you are  
supposed to do in order to improve your character upon specific  
lines. It is only a game in that it has these things; its specific  
mode of implementing these aspects are what distinguishes it from  
other games, which implement them differently.

However Second Life is not a roleplaying game. There is no character  
sheet. You can change your avatar at any time to resemble anything.  
You are not prescribed a certain set of "classes" or types of roles  
which you can play. There are no "skills" and no "stats." There is no  
"role" to play. It in no way resembles an RPG. (The only thing  
vaguely RPG-ish about SL is the health meter, which nobody uses at  
all and is disabled in every area that you go to.)

Just because Eve Online is a game, and has business-likes structures  
within it, does not mean that because SL has business-like structures  
within it, that therefore SL is a game. Quite the contrary; it  
doesn't mean anything.

>
>> Now, because the users of Second Life can create custom-programmed
>> objects, many people within SL make and sell games.
>
> Sounds awfully like making and selling stuff in WoW or pretty much
> any other MMORPG, just a bit less restricted.

It is exactly unlike making and selling stuff in WoW or any MMORPG.  
In those games, when you make something, you don't actually make it.  
Your character just goes through the motions of making it, and it  
hones some skill in your character sheet.

However in SL, when you make something, you are actually creating  
something entirely new. It has a 3D modeling software built into the  
client, which is not too different from any other 3D modeling  
software. Why, just because it is accessible by multiple users at the  
same time, must you insist that this somehow makes it a "game?" I  
don't understand your logic at all.

It's not "a bit less restricted," it's ENTIRELY UNRESTRICTED. Of  
course, if you make racist imagery or child porn and put it up in  
public, you can get banned from SL. But that's not because it's a  
"game" or any such nonsense, but simply because it's privately run  
and Linden Labs has a particular standard to which they hold the  
residents of SL.
>
> Our EVE corporation mines minerals and manufactures ships and ship
> modules. Again, we are more constrained by the rules of the game, but
> it's the same principle at work.

No, it's entirely different principals. Your Eve corporation does  
nothing creative whatsoever. You don't create anything like a  
product; you just go through prescribed game activities that are  
already set up in advance for you to do. This is completely different  
from SL, in which people are actually creating things from their own  
imaginations, and there are no rules of any sort of game constraining  
them (because it's not a game).


>
>> Or is it just that, to you, it's not "work" if you are spending long,
>> frustrating hours programming something that is in 3D as opposed to
>> 2D HTML/Flash sites?
>
> However you look at it, and however 'unlimited' the environment you
> are still limited by rules, and borders, and restrictions. Perhaps
> it's because I find it very hard to take Second Life seriously, but
> to me that makes it a game. It's a very open minded one but it's
> still a game. Also in being a jack of all trades as it is it's turned
> out fairly badly, both appearance-wise and performance-wise.

Well, real life also has rules, borders, and restrictions. But that  
does not make it a game. Games are things we do WITHIN real life, to  
escape from it in a way. Games take place within a certain field, a  
certain set of rules that define which actions the players would want  
to take, and expressly as a "fun" or "play" activity.

Now, there are RPG's that go on within Second Life; as I said before.  
There is a Star Wars RPG, and Star Trek RPG, medieval RPGs, etc. That  
by itself should show you that SL itself is not a game (but contains  
games, much like RL does).

And while you may poo-poo SL's graphics and performance, but I'd say  
its graphics are a lot better than the 2D web!

>
>> I make a fair bit of income from scripts (programmed objects) that I
>> create within Second Life and sell to in-world entities (companies,
>> governments, individuals, etc.). Anyone who thinks that's not "work"
>> is stupid, no offense. I know quite a few people who make their
>> entire incomes from SL.
>
> I make a shit-ton of 'money' out of mining in EVE, but they don't
> allow credits-for-cash because it damages the integrity of the game.
> I 'work', hell mining is as dull as dish water 90% of the time (which
> is why I need a break from time to time). I 'work' for 'money' and
> buy better equipment and make more 'money'. That sounds like work to
> me too but it ain't, it's just a game!

Of course it would damage the integrity of the game; because games  
are supposed to be separate from real life. SL, not being a game, is  
exactly the opposite, and is not subject to such a restriction (quite  
the opposite, actually). The fact that you play a very boring game  
does not mean that it's any less a game; games often have tasks  
within them that are boring and very work-like (marathon running,  
anyone?).

>
>> Besides which, gaming is a $12 billion/year industry (bigger than the
>> movie industry), and that's not even counting all the computer
>> hardware sales that are driven by it. So, you better get off your
>> little "games don't matter" high horse, thinking that "people who
>> actually work don't play games" or some nonsense.
>
> I'm a gamer. I don't play as many as I used to admittedly, but I am
> still a gamer at heart (mostly I have cut down because the supply of
> decent PC games has all but dried up in recent years - maybe I should
> buy a console!). I know it's a big industry (mostly aimed at grabbing
> lots of money off kids - ain't that cute!) but you have to accept
> that some people don't really care. You can take your attitude that
> SL is not a game around with you if you like, but I think more people
> will laugh at you than will agree with you. That's a shame I know,
> but it's true.
>
> I often wonder what Jean Baudrillard would have mode of all this.

Well, let them laugh; they are fools. Who cares? I haven't read much  
Baudrillard, but first you'd have to show him how to use a mouse I  
reckon. I bet he'd think it was pretty cool, though. It certainly  
seems to validate his ideas about the "desert of the real." Maybe  
there's an analog: the desert of the virtual. Or mine, perhaps.

-
Jon Gilbert
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