[geeks] Leopard, was: find - having a senior moment

[Shannon Hendrix]

On Jan 15, 2008, at 3:15 AM, Mark wrote:

> As far as I've found, that's a convention in GUI desktops that goes
> back over 20 years to my knowledge. I'll just run off a quick list of
> OSs *I've used* that I know do it:

...and I think they are all broken... :)

One of the primary points behind a GUI metaphor is consistency, or it  
breaks down.

> Not exhaustive by any means but it's a pretty good cross-section of
> platforms and OSs. I've always accepted it as the normal way. Why is
> it like this? Because in the old days 'moving' a file from one disk or
> partition to another was risky (and still is if you are paranoid like

It's not risky if properly implemented, never has been.

Or rather, no more risky than storing data on a computer in the first  
place.  Copy, verify, delete source.  If there are problems at least  
you don't lose data.

Besides, wouldn't the logical solution be to always copy then, to make  
the UI consistent?

KDE defaults to asking you what to do, which sounds hokey but I've  
found users instantly understand and have no problems.  A lot of  
people don't like it, and I didn't when I first started using it, but  
I guess in a way it is the most sane option.

> Yes. I agree. It's a total pain, especially when for some people drag
> and drop presents the most logical visual semantics as away to operate
> with files and applications (something the Mac has always picked up on
> well). On the same count though, some people just 'don't get it.

> Problem is that if you used most other mainstream OSs you'd have the
> same problems, if not more, so it's not exactly worth beating up on
> Apple for it.

Yes it is... :)

It's always worth beating up on the industry when it is stupid.

The only reason things are usable at all is because people beat up on  
it.

Apple is particular hard-headed, but they do eventually yield to user  
demands, partially because Apple users are so vocal.

Most Windows users I know seem to have either given up, or they just  
don't care.

Amiga users... if their OS deletes important data, they'll tell you it  
is an OS feature that automagically detects data usefulness and saves  
you time by deleting stuff you really didn't need...

[ imagine more smiley's than I have time for right here ]

> Frankly, they'd be damned if they did and damned if they didn't,
> because it's such a long held convention.

Probably true... but it could be an option.

I'd like the option to always make it to one thing myself.

>> With that logic in mind, anyone who trust a computer store files in
>> the first place needs a kick in the arse.
>
> That's what backups and backups of backups are for :)

I wish I could afford real backup.

What I do right now is make sure data is redundant across a Time  
Machine backup, my Mac,  my NAS server, and sometimes a Linux box.

Hopefully all four of those will not die at the same time.

On top of that, I make DVD backups of really important stuff.

It's not great but it is generally all I can afford.

Hopefully one day we'll see real removable media come back to a useful  
state for everyone, and I mean something you don't have to "burn".

Personally, I'd be happy if reliable tapes would come down in price.

Even just 50-100GB would make me pretty happy, and let me back up my  
most important stuff on a regular basis.

>> But seriously, it does amaze me how much people have come to trust
>> their machines, especially the people who should know better.
>
> Indeed, hard drives are anything but, and people really don't seem to
> realise that.

But, but, but... the box says "3D Data Protection System" and  
"automatically notifies you when to replace the drive."

They would never lie to me!

> Thankfully that one has not often kicked me in the arse. *Knocks on
> wood*.

I have a couple of times: I lost most of my 80s and early 90s data,  
mostly because I didn't have any media for backups.  Machine died  
taking drives with it, and some idiot at a remote system I used for  
backups removed my (paid for) account without telling me.

That's why I don't trust the new wave of "we store your data" remote  
application services, and why I wish backup media were more readily  
available.

I've been pretty lucky since then, but as data storage gets larger and  
I'm really seeing any serious effort by the industry to give us ways  
to back it up.

-- 
"Where some they sell their dreams for small desires."