[geeks] Socialized medicine [was Re: nVidia 8800GT for Apple Mac Pro]

[Mike Meredith]

On Sun, 25 May 2008 22:40:14 -0500 (CDT), Lionel Peterson wrote:
> How about the flow of people? I've never heard of any great number of
> European nations, but for over 400 years europeans have been fleeing
> Europe to settle in America - they can be found in every state, and

Undoubtedly that was the case in the past, although some were purely
economic migrants. For example most of the early Jamestown settlers
were doing quite well in England, and were in Jamestown to get richer.

Now? I'm pretty sure that for the UK immigration is significantly
larger than emigration. And almost as sure that applies over most of
Europe.

> Do you need a food riot to be a failure? I think not. I've not seen
> any food riots here in the US (angst over rising prices on commodity
> items is not the same as a food riot).

No, but having one is a significant indication of failure.

> The "thousands being thrown out of their homes" is a false argument -
> the homes are not theirs, they are owned by the banks, and the people
> you refer to as the owners are the occupants that agreed to make
> payments they can't/don't want to continue to make.

Well most of those who lost "their" homes might disagree, and the
effects are being felt elsewhere. It isn't by itself an indication of a
society about to fail.

Besides, I wasn't trying to point out indications that the US is in
imminent danger of collapse ... it isn't. I was wondering why others
are claiming Europe is in imminent danger of collapse when I can't see
any signs of it.

Perhaps I'm too close to see the signs, or perhaps others are letting
their prejudices (and perhaps misleading media reports) predict
failure.

> Unemployment rates are at 4.5-5% here right now, using the only
> measure available. IF we have such an unemployment problem, why do
> 
> CLearly someone is wrong - can they both be right?

Well you can argue that the unemployed worker in Ohio should be moving
to where the work is. I dare say many are doing just that. It's just
that the ones moving from Ohio are less obvious. The ones who stay
behind may have many reasons for staying put ... some bogus; some
legitimate. Perhaps they like the fishing :)

For instance (and I don't know how much this applies to Ohio) I was in
South Wales during the late 1980s, and the unemployed there were
reluctant to move to what was to them a foreign country (England).

As to (illegal) immigrants, well by their nature they're more inclined
to move to where the work is ... otherwise you wouldn't see them! They
may also be inclined to move back after a few years. For example the UK
has recently been visited by large numbers of Polish migrant
workers[0]. Many (when interviewed) make it plain that they are
intending to work for a few years to improve their standard of living
in Poland.

[0]: Enough that many adventurous small independent shops now have a
few shelves dedicated to imported Polish foods. I just wish that the
packaging was in English; some of the cakes look pretty good :)


-- 
Mike Meredith (http://zonky.org/)
  ... indeed, there is something vaguely dishonourable in having lived
  through the sixties without having spent time in jail
  --HST