[geeks] What is a Fundamentalist (was Re: Socialized medicine [was Re: nVidia 8800GT for Apple Mac Pro] )

[hike]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:58 PM, der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca>
wrote:

> >> Ah - perhaps we have a definitions problem: what is a fundie?
> > A kind of ice cream ?
>
> :-)
>
> > I always thought "Fundamentalist" was a christian who believed that
> > the bible[0] was the literal word of god.  And nothing but the bible
> > reveals the mind of god.
>
> Perhaps.  But, though there is an etymological relationship, fundie
> does not quite equal fundamentalist - at least not as I understand/use
> the words.
>
> The `fundie "Christian"' (quotes because it really doesn't have much to
> do with what Jesus actually taught) mindset I was talking about is the
> remarkably inconsistent one that picks and chooses what pieces of "the
> Bible" it believes - but is utterly unquestioning of those pieces, is
> remarkably ignorant about their context and other such facts, and
> exhibits some problematic mindsets that I can perhaps satirize as "my
> mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts" and "when I want your
> opinion I'll give it to you".  The sort of thinking (if it can be
> called that) that leads to things such as the oft-repeated quote from
> some politician saying that "if it [English] was good enough for Our
> Lord Jesus Christ, it's good enough for them [immigrants]".  The sort
> of person who cites Leviticus 18:22 against homosexuality but
> completely ignores, eg, the dietary injunctions in Leviticus 11 (I can
> see ignoring the Talmudic details of modern Jewish kosher laws, but not
> the basic prohibitions in Leviticus).
>
> This has little to do with the true fundamentalist, who generally (a)
> really does pay attention to what Jesus taught and (b) is not at all
> problematic in any sense relevant here.
>
> >> [...] who votes Republican and believes that abortion is a sin.
> > Ah!  But does he believe abortion should be illegal?
>
> I hope not - separation of church and state.  A sin is a _religious_
> transgression, and, as such, to enshrine it in secular law, applying it
> to those not following that religion, is a conflation of church and
> state.
>
> > My fascist granny who is a bit of a fundie herself, believes that
> > abortion is a sin
>
> And so it is, then...for her.  Just as being unhospitable to a guest
> is, for me.
>
> /~\ The ASCII                           der Mouse
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der Mouse wrote:

>> [...] who votes Republican and believes that abortion is a sin.
> Ah!  But does he believe abortion should be illegal?

I hope not - separation of church and state.  A sin is a _religious_
transgression, and, as such, to enshrine it in secular law, applying it
to those not following that religion, is a conflation of church and
state.


der Mouse,

You have missed the point of faith derived frombased on the Bible.  The
point of the teachings of the Law and the Prophets (i.e., the Old Testament)
and the New Testament is that faith should pervade every part and point of
the believer's life.  This is stated rather obviously throughout the Old and
New Testaments.

The Christian/Lutheran lady mentioned previously is applying her Christian
faith to her political perspective/life.  This is what she should do
regardless of the prevailing cultural ideas.  She should follow the biblical
teachings and apply these teachings to all of her life.  If she does not,
she is rightly called a hypocrite.

One further thing that most citizens of the USA do not understand (from my
informal surveys and historical research) is that the concept of a sovereign
state without an official state/state-sponsored/state-approved religion is
an American invention.  (That's at least one reason the founders called our
government an "experiment".)  The separation of "church" and "state" is a
supra-constitution belief/doctrine.  If you check, you will see that all
pre-modern governments espoused a state religion.  Rome & Greece had the
Greco-Roman gods (who formed a basic for the Gnostic gods).  At the time of
the founding of the USA, England's state religion was the Anglican form of
Christianity; France's was the Roman Catholic Church; Denmark, Finland,
Sweden supported the Lutheran Church; and on and on.  What is truly
remarkable about the "no state/federal religion/Church" doctrine of the
founders is that all Churches/Denominations/Faiths were given the same
status before the state/federal government of the new government in the
USA.  (The individuals states and commonwealths of the USA did not have this
restriction.  The state/commonwealth constitutions did eventually support
this same "no state/federal religion/Church" doctrine at the
state/commonwealth level.)

Now, the major point, which I hope you realize, is that the underlying
actions (and purpose, IMO) of every government are to become GOD in the eyes
of their subjects/citizens/slaves.  For instance, the Christian faith
teaches that everything comes from God.  Every government reaches a point
where this its goal--that its subjects believe everything comes from the
government.  Ancient Rome eventually enshrined caesar as a god.  (This was
one of the great points of conflict with the early Christians.  While the
early Christians were good citizens, they would not declare "Caesar is God!"
as required by law.  In fact, it was in this situation that the name
"Christian" came into being.  Those who swore "Caesar is God!" were called
"little Caesars:, or Caesarians, and early belivers of the Lord Jesus were
called "Little Christs", or Christians.  Rome certainly is a good comparison
for the USA.  Rising taxes on the workers/productive without destroying the
rich; welfare to every one; state support of organized sports; and the like.

Christ espouses and preaches of a Kingdom "not of this world" and He is only
requiring what all governments and kings, given the time, proclaim.  (If I
may speak from end to beginning.)

The movement for government to provide cradle-to-grave support for its
citizens is a prophesy of the potential of bad things to come.  Certainly,
the greater restrictions on travel for citizens of the USA mean that we ask
more and more for government approval in our travels, movements, and
residencies.  The imposition of cameras in public life also bring the
government's focus onto even smaller details of our lives.

So if can go back to the neighbor who is a Lutheran and votes Republican and
is against abortions.  She is, as far as the example is given, a good
example of Christianity if her political views are based on her Christian
faith.  But, knowing little about Lutheran history in the USA, as a
Lutheran, she is also supporting the largest non-government school system in
the USA.  (Yes, Lutheran schools represent more students than even the Roman
Catholic school system.)  Elementary, secondary, post-secondary, graduate,
and terminal educations institutions.  Lutheran hospitals are also counted
among their pursuits.  Lutherans are in/have been in Congress in my lifetime
(both Republican & Democrat).  Lutheran charitable ventures, social work,
Christian social work.  This one Lutheran lady living next door is, probably
without knowing the extent, is working to change the world, that is, to, at
least, make the world a better place.

If I am give one more example.  I lived through this time as a child and
adolescent.  It is the period in the 1950's and 1960's called the Civil
Rights Movement.  The leader was Martin Luther King, Jr.  MLK,Jr. was a
Christian and a Baptist pastor who stood up to speak out against the
injustice of discrimination.  He was motivated by his Christian faith and
beliefs.  He changed the USA for the better.  While we love the freedoms
that are the fruit of his Christian ministry, we many times neglect the fact
of his faith and his place in the leadership and history of the Christian
Church.

So, please let Christians be Christians and encourage us to "live up" to the
Lord Jesus.  If we fail, please tell us; we really want to be "little
Christs" and many of us cannot see the path as clearly as we should.  You
can bark at us though we would rather you come to us as friends.  (We
believe "the wounds of a friend are blessings".)

Now there much more that can be said, but my mentor says I should strive to
be more concise.


HTH,

hike