[geeks] Needed: A good sparc workstation

[Nadine Miller]

On Mar 8, 2009, at 6:40 AM, Lionel Peterson wrote:

> On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Joshua Boyd <jdboyd at jdboyd.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:17 AM, gsm at mendelson.com wrote:
>>> I found that out recently when I upgrade my local server from a  
>>> much enhanced
>>> red hat 7.2 system to Ubuntu 8.04.2 LTS server. Lots of things  
>>> were no longer included, and you could not IMHO do any meaningful  
>>> maintainance.
>>> I ended up installing so many packages that it would have been  
>>> easier and
>>> faster to install the regular one.
>>> I also found that I could not do a lot of adminisration things  
>>> without a gui, and this was a server with a 640x480 monchrome  
>>> monitor. Luckily I
>>> figured out how to connect to it using my Mac as an Xterminal.
>>
>> If you couldn't figure out how to do it without a GUI, you were  
>> doing something wrong since a lot of people run Ubuntu 8.04 LTS on  
>> completely headless systems (meaning serial console).
>
> Joshua,
>
> As I read your note it seems dismissive/border line insulting. I  
> don't think you meant it that way, but that's how it reads.
>
> Every few months on the Ubuntu server maillist there is a heated  
> discussion on the very subject of including GUI tools in the server  
> build, and though it never gains traction, it has staying power.

> Yes, everything that needs to be done on a server can be done via  
> serial console/terminal session, but it can be a lot of typing, and  
> since GUI tools exist (and act sanely), why ignore them just to  
> prove something can be done via command line.


If you cannot administer it over a serial console, it's not a server.   
Anyone who does 100% percent remote administration is going to say the  
same thing.  Typing is far less cumbersome and annoying then having to  
bust out the mouse for tasks.  Mice cause RSI, and mousing actions  
cannot be saved into a text file so the next time you have to do  
something 3-6 mo down the road and you can't remember wtf it was you  
did, you can just peek into your cheat sheet file.

As for Geoff and his issues with LTS, I'm using that *desktop* distro  
with Macs and Samsung printers and have only had to do one thing  
special, other than extracting the PPD out of the old Samsung Apple  
installer.  I had to compile Netatalk by hand because the "stock"  
*buntu build does not enable ssl and OS X doesn't like that.  It's a  
simple matter to mark that package so that it doesn't get upgraded.

IME, "apt get update" and "apt get upgrade" work just fine in *buntu.   
There is zero you need to do with Synaptic and that ilk to maintain  
your system.  The only thing I've noted that is more of an annoyance  
than a problem, is that the stupid "reboot your system" notification  
is too dumb to realize you initiated the reboot from the command  
line.  But then, while I call my home file server a file server, it's  
really a workstation that's being forced into the role of server so I  
expect these types of oddities.  If you *only* want a server, why even  
bother with *buntu?  Install Debian and be done with it.

I find it ironic that Geoff, the guy that seems happy to beat up on  
everyone for their choices of over-powered, excessive machines is now  
stating that GUIs are better.  I'll also point out that most commodity  
x86 hardware (save perhaps your network card if it is an oddball  
brand) will run Solaris 10 x86, so I'm not sure why he thinks costly  
special hardware is necessary.

> The Windows Server 2008 community is starting to work with so-called  
> 'Core' installs, without GUI, and they bitch and moan like stuck  
> pigs UNTIL they realize that remotemanagement tools work just fine -  
> all they lost was the local GUI.

I think this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  Windows was not  
originally designed to be used @ the CLI only.  Recall that X, gnome,  
etc. are all *add ons* for *NIX.

=Nadine=