[rescue] rescue Digest, Vol 223, Issue 6
Bob Darlington
rdarlington at gmail.com
Sat Jun 5 11:32:42 CDT 2021
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On Fri, Jun 4, 2021, 2:17 PM Mathew Holland <mhollandcoventry at gmail.com>
wrote:
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Dave McGuire)
> > 2. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Stephen Conley)
> > 3. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Mouse)
> > 4. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Earl Baugh)
> > 5. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Dave McGuire)
> > 6. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Dave McGuire)
> > 7. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Will Enestvedt)
> > 8. Re: What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard? (Stephen Conley)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:19:16 -0400
> > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID: <4a9859c6-fe38-9a48-8202-8b21f04b1cbd at neurotica.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > On 6/4/21 3:17 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote:
> > > When IBM Type M keyboards hit $25/per, the keyboard companies came out
> > with
> > > similar keyboards... maybe if the price gets high enough...
> >
> > Perhaps.
> >
> > > Didn't Sun have a PS/2 adapter box to use sun keyboard/mouse on PC/x86
> > > system?
> >
> > That rings a very loud bell, I think they may have.
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > --
> > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> > New Kensington, PA
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:19:25 -0400
> > From: Stephen Conley <cheetah at tanabi.org>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAFbQXuEWvyr0d=
> > HO_3sj6TfBPjY4hx9D2-j6m0tOkm7mgi0vPw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > The only improvement I would want is a USB hub in the keyboard so you can
> > plug your mouse into the keyboard (which I do with my G15 and is true to
> > the original Sun keyboards anyway). Keeping the feel as close to the
> > original as possible is part of it.
> >
> > $200 for a niche keyboard is about the going rate, there's been plenty of
> > custom keyboards built in the past few years. This one comes to mind at
> > $285.00 ... https://system76.com/accessories/launch ... that said, its
> > such a tiny keyboard it makes my wrists hurt just looking at it. And I
> > actually do use my number pad so no number pad is kind of an on-starter.
> > If I wanted to type on a laptop keyboard, I'd type directly on my
> laptop's
> > keyboard instead of plugging an external keyboard into it :)
> >
> > I think there would be takers at a $200 - $300 price point, I'd
> definitely
> > count myself as one.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:10 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 6/4/21 3:05 PM, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:
> > > > Raises hand ... I know people who work with injection molding
> machines.
> > > >
> > > > What do you need? I would say get the Cherry keycaps that are softer
> > > and less clicky, rather than make that part yourself.
> > >
> > > Well the idea here would be to make an *exact replica* of a Type 5
> (or
> > > Type 4) keyboard, not one "with some adjustments". Otherwise there's
> > > really not much point.
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> > > New Kensington, PA
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:20:38 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID: <202106041920.PAA21243 at Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > > [...] the end result would still be a twenty-year-old keyboard. Type
> > > 4s are dropping like flies now, and Type 5s won't be far behind.
> >
> > As in, existing ones are breaking?
> >
> > My type-3s are still going strong. I've had _one_ type-3 fail in the
> > last...two decades for sure, three decades I think. Coming up on a
> > (short-scale) billion keystrokes, at a rough guess; while admittedly
> > that's spread across multiple type-3s, I'd say I've got at least two
> > type-3s that have each seen multiple hundred million keystrokes.
> >
> > Maybe my perception that the type-4 and type-5 are cheaper designs is
> > well-founded? They certainly _feel_ cheaper. (Here using "cheaper" as
> > distinct from "less expensive".)
> >
> > /~\ The ASCII Mouse
> > \ / Ribbon Campaign
> > X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
> > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:28:23 -0400
> > From: Earl Baugh <earl at baugh.org>
> > To: "rescue at sunhelp.org List" <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAAucK2UkmGqYSmHuauRjot-Qxsi=3DH6K9LUnpDY6+pyQR1A=
> > w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Well the stars seemed to align and I just picked up a box (maybe 10-12,
> > didn't count) of Type 5, 6, 7 Sun keyboards...
> > Send me a note if you really want one (beer money plus shipping would
> > work...). I have a stash already of
> > maybe another 10-15 so I definitely don't need this many to match up to
> the
> > number of Sun machines I have.
> > Yes, they aren't "new" but if you want a type 5 I have some... (BTW, my
> > type 4's haven't had any problems yet... Dave, what have you seen go
> wrong,
> > very curious..). The Sun 1 and Sun 2 keyboards I have (which are MUCH
> > rarer than the type 4 or 5 seem to be build a lot sturdier... and I'm
> > hoping any future issues are long in the future, given how hard it was to
> > find them)
> >
> > FYI -- I found out when we were buying some Ultra 2's (yes a while ago
> :-)
> > ) that the type 5 layouts ( USA Unix vs USA ) for the keyboard layouts
> were
> > different enough to bother me quite a bit :-). Escape not being in the
> > right place (for a vi user) is a show stopper. So, if I find the USA
> > layout those are definitely in my "get rid of" pile :-). USA Unix I
> still
> > use on old machines...
> >
> > Earl
> >
> > p.s. At least on the Model M front Unicomp exists and produces pretty
> much
> > drop in parts for the old frames (move the keys and keycaps over -- the
> new
> > ones don't have the same fit, IMHO) so for my main keyboard (yes, on my
> > home and work Macs :-) ) I expect to be able to keep going for a
> while....
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:31:41 -0400
> > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID: <d41e4aff-0bf5-97d5-7237-3c6599c2017f at neurotica.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > On 6/4/21 3:20 PM, Mouse wrote:
> > >> [...] the end result would still be a twenty-year-old keyboard. Type
> > >> 4s are dropping like flies now, and Type 5s won't be far behind.
> > >
> > > As in, existing ones are breaking?
> >
> > Yes, heartbreakingly. Last year I went through my personal stock of
> > Type 4s looking for two good ones to set up at the museum. I found two
> > good ones, and a stack of about twenty with key failures.
> >
> > > My type-3s are still going strong. I've had _one_ type-3 fail in the
> > > last...two decades for sure, three decades I think. Coming up on a
> > > (short-scale) billion keystrokes, at a rough guess; while admittedly
> > > that's spread across multiple type-3s, I'd say I've got at least two
> > > type-3s that have each seen multiple hundred million keystrokes.
> >
> > Excellent. But the Type 3 is a very different design. The Type 2 is
> > different still, and is another one of my favorites. Very slightly
> > clicky, and very fast.
> >
> > > Maybe my perception that the type-4 and type-5 are cheaper designs is
> > > well-founded? They certainly _feel_ cheaper. (Here using "cheaper" as
> > > distinct from "less expensive".)
> >
> > A bit, yes. The Type 4 is a capacitive keyboard that uses the little
> > mylar-ish disk glued to a foam pad. They can be rebuilt, but it's very
> > time-consuming if you have more than one. I'm overly sensitive to that
> > aspect of things because we have probably 150 keyboards at the museum
> > that need that repair. (for various systems and terminals)
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > --
> > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> > New Kensington, PA
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:34:41 -0400
> > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID: <4735a9d6-9cc8-9a38-af4e-9d336b87462c at neurotica.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > On 6/4/21 3:28 PM, Earl Baugh wrote:
> > > (BTW, my
> > > type 4's haven't had any problems yet... Dave, what have you seen go
> > wrong,
> > > very curious..).
> >
> > The glue that holds the metallized plastic disk to the foam pad
> > degrades, and the disk falls off. The foam pads also degrade and turns
> > to dust. Either may happen first. The symptom for the former is keys
> > that just don't work, and the symptom for the latter is "flat" keys that
> > don't pop back up after being pressed.
> >
> > As I mentioned in a previous message, they can be rebuilt, but it's
> > very tedious and time-consuming.
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > --
> > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> > New Kensington, PA
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:40:51 -0400
> > From: Will Enestvedt <wenestvedt at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID: <9D9028C3-A612-411D-BB36-7D5945D3E9B1 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I know we had serial concentrators with them, albeit not Sun-branded.
> >
> > I probably have a couple of the serial-to-USB boxes in my office junk box
> > if
> > anyone wants me to look next time I am actually there.
> >
> > - Will
> > --
> > Will Enestvedt
> > wenestvedt at gmail.com
> >
> > > On Jun 4, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > Didn't Sun have a PS/2 adapter box to use sun keyboard/mouse on PC/x86
> > > system?
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 15:57:14 -0400
> > From: Stephen Conley <cheetah at tanabi.org>
> > To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [rescue] What would you pay for a Type 5 keyboard?
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAFbQXuGHYJ_OdM-CWiX5VC1RKpBvdrf1S1=
> > aGZcRN5UsOYwK2w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > There were a number of Sun to USB converters out there you could buy, I
> > think I still have one somewhere (along with some 13W3 to
> > something-or-other adapters). My recollection, however, is that simply
> > plugging a Type 5 into a Linux machine was something of a keymap train
> > wreck. Now, we're probably talking a solid 10 years or so since I tried
> > it, but I distinctly recall having a bad time of it.
> >
> > Another thing I'd like with a new Type 5/Type 4 would be easy
> > plug-it-in-and-go keymapping. Maybe even a switch on the underside to go
> > from Sun mode for those that want to plug it into an Ultra with a USB
> port
> > to PC for those of us that would use it with Linux or some other "modern"
> > system.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:40 PM Will Enestvedt <wenestvedt at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I know we had serial concentrators with them, albeit not Sun-branded.
> > >
> > > I probably have a couple of the serial-to-USB boxes in my office junk
> box
> > > if
> > > anyone wants me to look next time I am actually there.
> > >
> > > - Will
> > > --
> > > Will Enestvedt
> > > wenestvedt at gmail.com
> > >
> > > > On Jun 4, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Didn't Sun have a PS/2 adapter box to use sun keyboard/mouse on
> PC/x86
> > > > system?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rescue maillist - rescue at sunhelp.org
> > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of rescue Digest, Vol 223, Issue 6
> > **************************************
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