[rescue] SPARCEngine 1E and VME Memory Boards

Tue May 24 01:55:38 EDT 2022

Cool and thank you 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2022, at 15:44, Plamen Mihaylov <plamenspam at afterpeople.com> wrote:
> 
> I misread your first post and thought only the 2nd mem board is not detected. In this case I would not try to connect 1e with 3e mem via VSB. On other hand, when I was looking for 1e memory boards I attached a MVME2xx VSB memory to 1E , it didn’t work, but at least there was no “boom”.
> I use a regular VSB cable from Motorola 8000 series. These are very common in MVME141based  systems.
> The VSB cable uses A and C rows of pins, but are much shorter than the ones used in Motorola transition boards.
> Mororola part number is 30-W2645B01
> 
>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022, Richard <ejb at trick-1.net> wrote:
>> Hi Plamen
>> 
>> Any pointers to a VSB cable? Sun part number etc?
>> 
>> No it wasn’t seen over the VME bus…despite my wishing and misunderstanding of the documentation 🤪
>> 
>> Richard 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On 24 May 2022, at 15:03, Plamen Mihaylov <plamenspam at afterpeople.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> It is a VSB cable. It is mandatory to be used in Sparcengine 1e memory as well as sun3e.
>>> 
>>> I am little bit surprised that 1e has detected the sun3e memory board over vmebus only.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022, Richard <ejb at trick-1.net> wrote:
>>>> So thank you for the pointer and in a classic RTFM moment…:-) 
>>>> 
>>>> In the !E CPU Card Users Manual Section 17, page 137, (its a matter of reading a few pages I guess)
>>>> 
>>>> <snip>
>>>> The SPARCengine 1E P2 Bus is unique to the SPARCengine 1E. It is not compatible with the P2 Bus on any other Sun Microsystems card products. Use of the Sun Microsystems P2 bus for development is discouraged by Sun Microsystems, who reserves the right to re-configure the P2 Bus of each product related. The p2 Bus Is not documented for public use.
>>>> </snip>
>>>> 
>>>> Well thats handy! And then the killer
>>>> 
>>>> <snip>
>>>> While the SPARCengine 1E card family will work in a Sun-3E compatible back-plane, Sun-3E parity memory cards are NOT supported in a SPARCengine 1E system
>>>> <snip>
>>>> 
>>>> It says "not supported” but does that mean it might work, just don’t call Sun if it fails…kind of not supported or literally absolutely will never work kind of not supported…..hmmm
>>>> 
>>>> So even if I had a 1E memory card (I had one on order that was refunded as they couldn’t find it) I still probably wouldn’t be able to use it as I have a Schroff I/O board for my P2 connector and not a Sun one…
>>>> 
>>>> Off to go play with my SS1000 and do the memory upgrade I have been putting off for over a year.
>>>> 
>>>> In the mean time….anyone found a SunOS 4.0.3e or 4.1e OS tape kicking around?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> 
>>>> Richard
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 24 May 2022, at 11:05 am, Richard <ejb at trick-1.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ethan
>>>>> 
>>>>> Super interesting. Do you have any reference material for that?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The only reference I have is http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/sparc/800-8137-02_The_SPARCengine_1E_CPU_Card_Users_Manual_Apr90.pdf and from what I can determine it doesn’t mention or elude to any of the below…then there are the FE manuals but they don’t talk much about this either. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to say this is one of the more challenging bring backs I have done for a while.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Richard
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 24 May 2022, at 10:53 am, Ethan Hawke <ehawk at ember.systems> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The 1E uses the SBus as it's main system bus, and uses the S4-VME chip to interface with the VME bus as an IO controller not as memory.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In regards to the connector, the P2 connector is the second (lower) connector on the VME backplane, the unused outer row of pins on the P2 connector is used as the memory interface on the 1E. So the cable would be installed behind the backplane (like you would a paddleboard), while the pinout on the 1E's P2 is provided on the 1E manual, I don't have a copy of the 1E memory manual to find the pinout of the P2 connector on that (or the registers for the memory controller on board the memory expansion card). So to expand the 1E you will need a 1E memory card, and the correct backplane cable to connect them.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for mapping generic memory cards, that will be quite tricky, while you can use the /dev/vmea32d32 interface to talk to it, to use it as memory would require modifying the OS and OpenBoot to add the correct ranges to the 'available' attribute. However it won't be cacheable and will hurt performance.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If any one has a copy of the 1E Memory board user manual that would be helpful.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So if you want to expand the memory on a 1E, you will have to find a memory board and create the special cable, I can only assume that it's a straight through cable, but besides from that I don't know the details.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Ethan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 5/24/22 07:43, Richard wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Ethan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for that…..
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The sun 3e boards don’t have a special cable https://shrubbery.net/~heas/sun-feh-2_1/Systems/Sun3/FEH3.enter.html I have the 501-8031 . The Sun 4e memory boards don’t have any special cable either 501-8042/501-8036/501-8060 https://oldcomputers-ddns.org/public/pub/rechner/other_hardware/sun/sparc_4-330/sun-4x.pdf . They look very much the same :-/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How would I map them manually? Any pointers/howto?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> FWIW in my SPARCStation 1 I have the SBUS memory expansion with a special jumper cable. That won’t fit on this board.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 23 May 2022, at 20:25, Ethan Hawke <ehawk at ember.systems> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hey Richard,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately that is not how the 1E works. Only one of the special memory boards with the custom P2 cable will work.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do the sun 3e boards use a special cable or just the standard VME bus? If standard VME you can map them in manually but they will exist in IO (aka obio or "type 1") space and won't be cacheable.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The custom P2 cable carries the remaining signals to detect memory space accesses similar to the 'SBus Expansion Connector" on SS1/SS2 to use the special SBus memory boards.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sorry to disappoint,
>>>>>>>> Ethan
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 5/23/22 17:29, Richard wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Sadly they are all I have…I was working on the theory that owners of the 3/E would have upgraded to the 4/E without issue. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Much like the 3/260 to 4/260 upgrade I did back in the day. Remove old cpu board insert new COU board, install fresh OS and keep using all the memory boards etc.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 23 May 2022, at 17:11, Plamen Mihaylov <plamenspam at afterpeople.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe there is incompatibility between 3E and 1E mem boards when they are stacked. Do you have 4E60-16 or/and 501-8060 to test ?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 9:46 AM Richard <ejb at trick-1.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Plamen
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Manual indicates that multiple are supported
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/sparc/800-8137-02_The_SPARCengine_1E_CPU_Card_Users_Manual_Apr90.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> See pages 36 and 37…..
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 May 2022, at 3:45 pm, Plamen Mihaylov <plamenspam at afterpeople.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t sparcengine 1E is designed to handle 2 memory boards.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Plamen
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 23, 2022, Richard <ejb at trick-1.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking for some suggestions/guidance or help.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am Looking to add 2x 4Mb Sun 3/E memory boards to the SPARCEngine 1E.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do note that these are memory boards from the Sun3/E but am of the understanding that they will work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reading through the SPARCEngine manual I have added the jumpers to my schroff Backplane to bridge slot 2 as this is empty - the sbus video card occupies the slot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Configuration is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slot1: SPARCEngine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slot2: jumpered and empty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slot3: 4Mb memory bord jumpered for 4-8MB
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slot4: 4Mb memory bord jumpered for 8-12Mb.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now on post I don’t see the extra 8mb.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone got any ideas ? I read something about telling the nvram about the VME cards but not familiar with that process or how to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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